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Home » Publications » Free Presbyterian Magazine » 1978 » February 1978 » Discussions about Roman Catholicism

Discussions about Roman Catholicism

These discussions involved the others in our little group as well, but I will present them principally as conducted with Arturo Mazzei, the friend of Emelia’s family who attends the services we held in Emelia’s home.

On Thursday, 14th April we had a frank talk arising out of an address based on Matt. 15:25. I tried to emphasise how the Syro-Phoenician woman came directly to Christ, and how evidently this whole incident presents Him as the one Mediator between God and men.

Arturo maintained that he had no time for Mass, nor for the Confessional. I said that I could not understand anyone attending Mass (which he does very infrequently), who did not believe in the necessity for it. He said that his occasional visits to Church were to enable him to think about spiritual things. He thought it a good thing that people should go to hear about their duty (not to kill, not to steal, and so on).

After a time he said that he thought it did not matter much whether one were Roman Catholic or Protestant. The important thing was, to believe in God. I tried to point out that if we say we believe in God, and yet think that it does not matter whether or not we follow the revelation of His will in the Bible, it is a god of our own imagination that we are believing in.

On Wednesday, 20th April, we had another set-to. Arturo seemed to be swinging from one extreme to another. One minute he would say that there was no difference between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism: next minute he would say that, if we were right, he couldn’t see how anybody ‘would be able to be saved’.

I tried to explain the gospel to him, mentioning the difference of emphasis between the question the Jailor asked (Acts 16:30) and the answer which Paul gave (v 31). I then asked him what he would look to when he came to die. He said he hoped God would pardon him for what he had done wrong. However, he went on to say that he tried to fulfil God’s will in sincerity, and that if he did wrong he did not mean to do it. I tried to show that, where the Spirit of God is, there is a clear sense of the only basis on which salvation is looked for, and illustrated the point by telling about the father of a friend of ours. This man was dying, and a visitor who called to see him said, ‘Well, you didn’t drink and you didn’t smoke; you lived a good life, you’ll be all right’. But the dying man raised himself on his elbow in the bed and said, ‘If I die trusting in my own righteousness, I will be a sorry spectacle on the Day of Judgment. I hope to die trusting in the righteousness of Christ’.

On Friday of that week we were at Arturo’s for tea: afterwards I spoke briefly on Ps. 106:4. Arturo was again asking what he could do, because it seemed to him from what was being said that no one could save himself. He seems to think quite deeply at times: the Holy Spirit alone can make him understand the truth as it is in Jesus.

The Children

Simonetta is ten years old now, and her mother spoke of her as a comfort to her. Emelia said that Simonetta understood that the Mass was wrong, and that Christ’s offering had been made once for ever.

It was good to hear this from Emelia, but even better to see evidence of it for ourselves. She obviously had a sincere interest in the Bible, and it was nothing for her to be wide awake at 10 p.m. and later, listening to it being discussed.

On the last Sabbath morning that we were there I told them that the sermon was intended especially for the children. At this the grandmother told them that they should pay attention, because they would not long have someone to explain the Scriptures to them. The boys said nothing, but Simonetta agreed heartily with what her Granny had said.

The subject that day was the parable of the Sower. I mention this to explain the reference at the end of the following quotation. This is a paragraph which Simonetta wrote to us at the end of a letter of her mother’s after we had left.

‘Every time when I pray with my family I remember you and think of these days when we prayed together. I hope that the Lord will give me the strength to read in some free moments and that I will manage to understand what I read. When I play, this thought disappears, but I hope that the birds will never carry away what you by the word have sown in my heart.’

The morning after our discussion based on Matt. 15:25, Simonetta apparently asked her mother: ‘But what do I have to do — go to Church or not?’ Of course, for a child attending school in Italy, to refuse to go to Church would be a scandal. And there is another matter, too. The issue of whether or not Simonetta will be ‘confirmed’ in Church will soon arise, and without a certificate of confirmation, she cannot get married as far as the R.C. Church is concerned.

The boys were willing to listen, too, although they do not show the interest that their little sister shows. They all need to be remembered in prayer.

Emelia

The loneliness of Emelia and her mother has been referred to in previous articles, and is no doubt appreciated. When Isobel kept a Bible Study with the two of them Emelia said that, though she had asked others to join them, they had not agreed to do so. She used to have a close friend, but since Emelia had begun to have services in her house the friendship had stopped.

We have referred already, too, to Emelia’s awareness of change in her spiritual experience. She said that sometimes she reads and prays out of a sense of duty. But on occasion she can hardly contain herself when coming across some precious part of Scripture. When we were reading the story of Naaman one Sabbath morning, she was evidently struck by Naaman’s protesting that Abana and Pharpar were ‘better than all the waters of Israel’. Afterwards she asked if that meant that men chose to go to other doctrines than what they receive from the Lord.

On another occasion I referred to the fruits of the Spirit (Galat. 5:22f). Emelia was quite affected by the passage, and said that she could not see evidence of these beautiful things in her life. She also said that, when she had first become interested in the gospel, she had thought that, to have the new birth would mean to be raised above all weaknesses, to overcome all defects. But she had found it different in experience: it was a fight.

To conclude this first article, here are a few sentences from a letter which Emelia sent in May:

‘ . . . I read your letter to everybody while we were seated at table. Simonetta said that she well remembers that Parable; but sometimes it is difficult for her to understand other parts of the Bible. She is interested in reading and every morning, before she goes to school, we read a chapter. From the bottom of my heart I ask the Lord, who sees and knows everything, that He will enable me to preserve right to the end of my days — for my own good and that of my family.

‘… I am at peace when I think, not of my merits, but of the merits of Jesus. Then I ask: will I have the faith to love the Lord with all my mind and heart as He wishes? Lacking assurance, I become sad; this is the life that I have — incomprehensible even to me.’

‘… I have to give you the good news that, on Sabbath morning, we began to read the Lord’s holy word all together — even Claudio. He decided not to go to Mass because it was raining. You can imagine the joy which I experienced in my heart; and for this I thank God. I hope that in consequence we will not meet obstacles; but, if we do, I ask God for the patience to be able to bear it.’

J. T.

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